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Four years ago, Glamour's cover featured an up-and-coming Kentucky-born actress named Jennifer Lawrence, "on the cusp," we wrote, "of being mega-famous." Well, "mega-famous" doesn't even begin to describe it: Since then, Lawrence has starred in blockbusters, won an Oscar, and launched a thousand GIFs with her self-deprecating pizza gags and red-carpet pratfalls. She's also pulled off a hugely difficult Hollywood feat: being both immensely likeable and seriously ballsy, taking stands on issues like fair pay for women. When the Sony hack spilled correspondence that revealed she'd been paid substantially less than her male costars on American Hustle, she jabbed back with an essay in Lena Dunham's newsletter Lenny, taking aim at the double standards that sometimes pressure women to act nicer, and negotiate less, than their male peers. "I want to fly under the radar," she says, but "my mouth has just made it impossible." Well, good!
In this interview with Glamour editor-in-chief Cindi Leive in the February issue of Glamour (see the full story on newsstands today, or download the digital edition here), she weighs in on everything from her style ("slutty power lesbian") to her outrage at the recent assaults on Planned Parenthood ("it's an attack on women"). Oh—and Amy Schumer, Adele, and Larry David make appearances. Listen in.
CINDI LEIVE: You were on the cover of Glamour four years ago. The first Hunger Games was just coming out. And you said—
JENNIFER LAWRENCE: Oh God. This is my least favorite part. As soon as somebody's like, "And you said," I'm like, "Oh God. Oh no."
CL: [Laughs.] You said, "I feel like I got a ticket to another planet and I'm moving there, and there's no turning back. And I don't know if I'm gonna like that other planet or have friends there." So… how's life on that other planet?
JL: It's really lovely. Very nice. ... It took a few years to adjust. I didn't really realize how angry and distorted I felt. For, like, probably a solid three years. It had nothing to do with Hunger Games…. It had to do with the thing that came with Hunger Games. I still felt entitled to a certain life that I just wasn't allowed to have [anymore]. I felt like I had the right to say, "I don't want to be photographed right now, I don't want people outside my house right now, I don't want my nephews in People." I felt so much anger of "Why can't I just do my job?" And then you just get used to it—and it just is.
CL: It makes me a bit sad if you don't feel you're entitled to that now.
__JL:__I don't, but that helps. [Laughs.] I do have an idea. I think that we should be allowed time off. Like—
CL: Off from being famous?
JL: Yes. Three months. "Oh, it's my three months off. You can't photograph me." I would love to be able to control being photographed. Then I wouldn't have a new headline out today that I wore the same jeans three days in a row. [Laughs.] I was like, "First of all, yes, I did. Second of all, f--k you, yes, I did." [Laughs.] But I hate the "movie star blues." We are so lucky, and I love my life. I wouldn't take any of it back for anything. So I don't like complaining about it.
CL: When you first got into acting, you said you felt like you weren't connecting with what was in school; you didn't feel smart in that situation. Then you read a script, and you were like, "This is where I'm smart." Do you still feel that connection when you read a script?
JL: Yeah. I'm addicted to work. And acting. I don't know how to describe it—reading a script is like a map. [But] it's on set, finding that character, feeling the emotions, getting that adrenaline—it is such a rush. Developing a character is the only thing in the world I feel 100 percent confident in, that I understand. I still have that feeling from being a teenager: "I'm good at this, and I like this." So I want to keep doing it, because it makes me feel good about myself.
CL: And now you have Joy. I loved her—she was like Gloria Steinem with a mop!
JL: Joy's lovely. [Laughs.] Both Joys are lovely. My Joy [the character] and [the real] Joy. I have Joy Mangano hangers all over my closet. They're brilliant. I have her steamer too.
CL: Do you have the mop?
JL: No, I don't. I'm not gonna bullsh-t; I don't do my own mopping. [Laughs.]
CL: One of the things that's fun to watch is how that character realizes her own power over the course of the movie. She goes from "I have an idea" to really being willing to fight for it.
JL: That was what was exciting about the story when David pitched it to me. It's all four seasons of success—before, when you don't believe in yourself; when you do believe in yourself, and nobody else does; and then all of the awful things that come afterward. And I liked the beginning, when she wants more than what life has bestowed onto her. She has this frustration that's not very likable, to lie next to your children and say, "I feel like I'm in a prison." But it's true. Everybody has this idea: You have children, and your entire life is complete. That's how I imagine it. I imagine I'll have children and then my whole life will just seem complete.
CL: Hate to break it to you. [Laughs.]
JL: But you can have children and love them with all your heart and soul, and love your family, and it's still OK to have a fire in you. That doesn't have anything to do with your family. That has to do with you. She has a gift…and she can't shut it up.
CL: There's a great moment at the beginning of the film when Joy's grandmother tells her she can grow up to [achieve] her dreams. I'm curious: Did you have that early family encouragement—people around you who told you, "Yes, this is what we want from you"?
JL: No. It was the opposite. I grew up in Kentucky, so nobody was like, "You're gonna be a movie star." [Laughs.] There just wasn't a possibility. And then, when I told my parents when I was 14 that I wanted to move to New York and become an actress, they were like, "Well, no. Obviously." And I just wouldn't shut up about it. I had already saved up babysitting money. So I was like, "I'm going."
CL: You had saved up enough babysitting money to go to New York?
JL: I've always been a real stickler with money. I wouldn't buy things from the concession stand. I never knew what I was saving for until New York hit my mind. And then I was like, "That's what I've been saving for…. I'm going." And they were like, "Well, we don't want her to die." [So] my brother came with me…. But they were like, "You can try it for the summer, and then you have to come back and finish school."
CL: Their goal for you was "Don't die."
JL: Yeah. My mom always says she…wanted me to fail so that I could come home, because not failing meant me being in New York. She lost a daughter, really, at 14. I mean, she's very proud of me. She got on board when she saw how happy it made me. Because I knew. Emma Stone and I—we stayed up until, like, six in the morning talking about it the other night. We both were just like, "I just knew."
CL: You mentioned Kentucky before. Do you feel like there's a Kentucky part of your personality?
JL: My cousin and I were talking last night about what we wanted to do with our dead bodies. And I'm like, "I want my ashes scattered on Lake Cumberland." And when I said it out loud, I was like, "Wow. You really are still rooted in your redneck [ways]." [Laughs.] But basically it's a certain grit. Everything's very family oriented. Nobody knows or cares about designers. I care! But I didn't used to.
CL: When did you start caring?
JL: Pretty recently. I think I had to take control.… It was like, if I don't start getting an opinion, I'm just gonna be like a puppet that's being dressed by everybody else.
CL: So how would you describe your style now?
JL: "Slutty power lesbian." That is literally what I say to a stylist. [Laughs.] I don't know if that's offensive—
CL: But that puts me in a tuxedo frame of mind, which I don't feel like I see you in.
JL: Well, first of all, Dior is its own house that's very feminine and beautiful; this past press tour every dress was just phenomenal. So you don't see me as a slutty power lesbian on the red carpet a lot, because I'm embodying the Dior woman, which is an honor.… But [also] I've got tits and an ass. And there are things that are made for skinny people—like a lot of embroidery, or it covers a lot—and those make me look fat. I have to show the lumps. If you have boobs, you have to show, like, "These are boobs. This isn't cellulite." [Laughs.] Not that there's anything wrong with that.
CL: It was interesting watching Joy on the heels of having read your Lenny essay. Joy does come into a sense of her own power, and it feels like those are muscles you're flexing in your role in Hollywood right now too—first with Hunger Games, when you shattered the ideas of what a female-driven movie could do at a box office.
JL: Yeah, we broke that record, and I didn't even realize. As women we don't know we're at a deficit because we have vaginas. It wasn't until they had a headline like, "Even though she's a woman!" And I was like, "Oh. I didn't know to be looking out for that." [Baby voice] "How did this wittle vagina manage that? I carried a whooole movie." [Laughs.] "How did I do it, getting a period once a month?"
CL: [Laughs.] How did you do it? Give some tips.
JL: We had to take a week off every month.… I had to go to my red tent in the desert and wait it out. [Laughs.]…[But] I think there was this studio mentality for a long time that women and girls can relate to a male hero, but boys and men can't relate to a female hero. But that's simply not true. And so we've fortunately proved that.
CL: And then how did you decide to take a stand about [fair pay]?
JL: It was so personal that it was scary.… I keep going back and forth on being opinionated. I completely agree when there are actors who say, "Actors should stay out of politics. We're not politicians." [And] my business is based on everybody buying tickets and seeing my movie.… It's not smart, businesswise, to be opinionated. But then what's the point in having a voice at all if I'm not going to use it for what I truly believe in?
CL: I understand the argument that actors aren't more entitled than anyone else. But they're certainly as entitled as anyone else.
JL: Of course. And the women's pay gap is a real thing that a lot of people don't know about. It hasn't been in our consciousness; it wasn't in mine. I don't think it was Sony's fault [that I was paid less than my male costars in American Hustle]. I don't think it was anybody's fault. I wanted to open up about how my mentality got in my way.
CL: The point of what you could have done differently is a great one, but are you letting Sony off the hook there? Like, why not be a little bit mad at them?
JL: Because Sony's a business. You're not gonna give somebody more money if they don't ask for it. They've got to fit a million movie stars into one movie. They're trying to realistically make this happen. You know, [after the Lenny essay came out] my agent was like, "God, I feel like I look like a terrible agent." Well, no, because you have to do everything I say. And I said, "Settle." 'Cause I just wanted to do the movie; it wasn't about money to me at the time. But all the actors were doing that. None of us were getting our [usual] quotes. But the difference in who was getting a little less, and a lot less, than their quote was very vast. And I wanted to write about how I got in my own way. 'Cause I assume that in negotiating, the men were tough as balls.
CL: Back to speaking up—you had already done that once, when you talked in *Vanity Fair *about your [stolen] nude photos [which were leaked onto the Internet in 2014]. You made the good point of calling that a sex crime, not a scandal. I had been guilty of saying scandal prior to that, and I corrected myself.
JL: If I was quiet, it would have seemed like I was ashamed. And I wasn't ashamed; I was enraged. Not once have I felt like I "learned a lesson." I didn't do anything wrong!
CL: Who would imply that you should have learned a lesson?
JL: Even I've defended myself by saying I was in a relationship with a wonderful man for five years. But even if I wasn't, even if I [just] went on a date with a guy—it doesn't matter what the situation is. It's your body. And you can do whatever you want.
CL: I want to ask about some of the other projects you have coming up. First, the movie you're writing with Amy Schumer. I really hope it's gonna be a four-part franchise with an amusement park ride.
JL: We finished our first draft today. We gave birth today!
CL: And quickly. That was a short pregnancy.
JL: Four months. Four months. I saw Trainwreck in July, and I emailed her. I just knew: "This bitch needs to write a movie for me."
CL: "With" me?
JL: Well, I didn't know "with" at first. I emailed her and was like, "Write something for us." I've never done anything like that before. The next day she wrote back with a story line, which is unheard of. And now it's complete, and it's good! But it's definitely not a politically correct film. [Laughs.] …Amy's the most empathetic person I've ever met in my life. When she came over this morning, she was crying. She had just…seen the news about the shooting at Planned Parenthood. It's so awful…. It isn't an attack on abortions; it's an attack on women. Because Planned Parenthood is so much more [than abortion]. My mom was really religious with me when I was young. She's not so much anymore. And I wouldn't have been able to get birth control if it weren't for Planned P. I wouldn't have been able to get condoms and birth control and all these things I needed as a normal teenager who was growing up in a Jesus house.
CL: So did you go to Planned Parenthood for those things?
JL: Yes, I did. And now [gestures widely] I am a successful woman who has not had a pregnancy.
CL: Congratulations.
JL: Thank you. [Laughs.] But seriously. What harm comes from supplying people with birth control, condoms, Pap smears, and cancer screenings?
CL: Agree. Somewhat related, I did read in Vogue that you announced that your hymen was growing back.
JL: It's back. I'm officially a virgin.
CL: In all seriousness, you were talking about the fact that guys don't ask you out—
JL: No, it's that I'm picky. I feel a spark very, very rarely. And it's really only about spark for me. Not really anything else. You should see some of the people I find attractive. [Laughs.] You'd be shocked.
CL: Give me a random example.
JL: I gave Larry David my number. And he never called. [Laughs.]
CL: He might have been like, "That chick is 40 years younger than me. I'm not calling her." He has a moral compass.
JL: Which makes him even more attractive. I love that he didn't call me. It makes him so much hotter.
CL: Have you seen his Bernie Sanders impression [on Saturday Night Live]?
JL: Yes! I masturbated to it. [Laughs.] Joking. Obviously didn't.
CL: That might be the first time that sentence has ever been uttered.
JL: I'll love him from afar. [Laughs.] I don't, like, date a lot. I don't meet a lot of guys who I want to go on a date with. I'll find a guy attractive maybe once a year. But I'm not a lonely person. Me not dating someone is not a lack of anything in any way. I feel completely fulfilled. Yes, when I spark with someone, it's exciting, but I definitely don't need that.
CL: Well, the Internet was very excited that you were with Adele and Emma for dinner recently.
JL: I love Emma. She cracks me up; she's so "theater." She's so adorable. And Adele and I met, like, a year or so ago. Adele and I are a bit harsher; Emma's never had a bad thought about anybody in her life. It's so weird; I don't like new people. But these two women—and Amy—they're really lovely. And they're so normal. I feel like I'm hanging out with my friends—my friends that don't give a f--k about what I do. Amy and I have a life plan—we were with Diane Sawyer in Martha's Vineyard for Thanksgiving. Not to brag. Diane politely threw it out, and then we're sitting at the dinner table with her family, like, "We shouldn't be here." Anyway, Amy's always wanted to live on Martha's Vineyard, and we saw this house, and we're like, "This is where we're gonna Grey Gardens, and we're gonna grow old and crazy together." That's our life plan.
CL: That's a valid life plan. Speaking of the future, you've said that you want to direct, and now you're going to do it [with Project Delirium, about chemical-warfare experiments in the sixties], right?
JL: I've wanted it for a long time. My first director was a female director, at 16, Lori Petty [in The Poker House]. I got bit by the same bug that bit me with acting. I've tried to absorb every director I've worked with like a sponge. I've been making notes for seven years.
CL: And there's [the science fiction movie] Passengers. People keep describing Chris Pratt as the male Jennifer Lawrence. Do you see that at all?
JL: Yeah. But I'm a little meaner. [Laughs.] Chris Pratt is always in a good mood. We laugh all day…. He's like a chocolate Santa. He's just like if a dog came to life and was like, "I'm a great actor with a perfect face." And he's got the most lovely family. When I met Anna [Faris, Pratt's wife], I was like, "Go f--k yourselves." I mean that in the nicest possible way. They're like a Nicholas Sparks novel—just like, "Ewww! But I want it!" But he's also a great actor.
CL: Chocolate Santa has chops?
JL: He's an amazing actor and is making this movie a lot better.
CL: It's interesting, your saying you think you're meaner than him. You never seem mean at all.
JL: I think I think pretty cruelly. [Laughs.] Never act on it.
CL: Well, there are a million GIFs of you that say: "Trips up the stairs, still the most likable person on the planet." You know that's your reputation.
JL: I spilled milk this morning. Last night I spilled red wine all over the rug. All I want to be able to do is just walk from one place to another without falling! It's so annoying, honestly. And now I've gone from the charming, like, "Oh my God, whoops, I fell"—now it really pisses me off. 'Cause it's embarrassing now. So now I fall, and I'm like, "Stop looking at me! Don't take a picture!"
CL: But what about the conspiracy theory, that it's all [fake]?
JL: That's why it's embarrassing! That's why I want to be able to stop doing it. When I fell the second year at the Oscars, I was just like, "F--k." 'Cause I would think the same exact thing. I know it looks like a gag. It's really, really not.
CL: Do you ever think about doing social media? It would be completely within your control, as opposed to the GIFs and all that.
JL: No, because then that's more exposure—that's just more me. I want less me. I want people to have less me.
CL: [Laughs.] I don't think people want less you.
JL: But they do! They don't know that they do. But when they get more me, they'll hate me. If they don't already.
CL: Do you feel like you're misunderstood in any way?
JL: I don't feel like I'm misunderstood. I feel like I'm over-paid-attention-to. I'm not trying to be a GIF. I'm not trying to be a picked-up-on-Twitter quote. All I'm trying to do is act. And I have to promote these movies. And I am, at the end of the day, I guess, a f--king lunatic. So if you record what I'm saying, it's gonna be goofy. [Laughs and throws arms out.] What do I do? What do I do? I'm just a girl, sitting in front of the world and asking them to forgive her for speaking.
